A little over a month ago, I put up this post: https://apostateturtle.com/?p=972 regarding global hunger, but I included a video that cast doubt on whether veganism was really better from an environmental standpoint. However, fortunately I have a vegan mentor and when I asked him about it, he had a lot to say! He had some reservations at first because he felt that the animal rights argument is stronger than any other argument in favor of veganism and should suffice, but he acquiesced and I thought gave a very good response. Here’s the video again:
My mentor broke the video down into parts and responded to each one. This is his outline:
- Intro
- Point one: One study of two Italians ate a lot of fruit that had a high environmental impact.
- Points two: One study concluded 1kg mushrooms = 3kg co2 (less than meat but more than some fish)
- Point three: Mycoprotein has more emissions than meat
- Point four: Accessibility for marginalized communities in India
- Point five: Soy = deforestation
- Conclusion: We can improve the meat industry
His response was as follows:
Intro
We can immediately see the bias and poor understanding of what veganism is – she begins the video talking about how she eats a ton of meat and gets triggered by Veganuary – then says vegans will tell you all problems in your life are because you eat meat (?!)
Point one: One study of two Italians ate a lot of fruit that had a high environmental impact.
Thoughts:
a) Vegans aren’t the only ones who eat fruit, and realistically we probably only eat fruit at slightly higher rates than nonvegans.
b) If certain fruits from certain sources happen to be unsustainable, let’s figure that out and try to avoid those fruits from those particular sources.
c) This this is one tiny study of two humans — the vast majority of the literature in this area will tell you that fruit is a more sustainable option than animal foods. That’s if we can trust this person to even produce unbiased studies, which I’m skeptical of.
d) Fruits don’t have nerves or brains and therefore can’t and don’t suffer when we eat them
Points two: One study concluded 1kg mushrooms = 3kg co2 (less than meat but more than some fish)
Thoughts:
a) Not a super strong point overall since the number here is lower than meat, but also this study seems to only refer to mushrooms grown in particular facilities that have to use fossil fuels for energy/heating. Surely this isn’t the only way to grow mushrooms?
b) This point seems to reduce “environmental impact” to purely carbon emissions when there are so many other pieces to it.
c) Okay, if you ONLY care about co2 emissions, which would be silly, maybe some seafood products have a lower number than mushrooms overall. But our oceans are dying! We don’t have enough fish to feed everyone! It’s not sustainable.
Point three: Mycoprotein has more emissions than meat
Thoughts:
a) Again we are reducing “environmental impact” to carbon emissions only.
b) Again we are ignoring the fact that fungi don’t have nerves or brains and therefore can’t and don’t suffer when we harvest and eat them.
c) If we really, really care about carbon emissions, which we absolutely should, then maybe mycoprotein isn’t a great option. I think I’ve only had it once or twice. Could live without it. Definitely not representative of all plant-based meats
Point four: Accessibility for marginalized communities in India
It’s difficult for me to speak to the exact circumstances of marginalized communities in India, but it’s irrelevant for those of us who live in North America and Western Europe and lots of other places around the world. I definitely am not gonna say that people in marginalized/traditional communities around the world all need to adopt plant-based diets overnight, because it may not be feasible. Happy to let that point slide because those folks aren’t the problem
Point five: Soy = deforestation
It’s funny to me that anyone still makes this argument because it’s so easily and so often debunked. Humans globally consume a very small portion of soy. The vast majority goes to animal feed, which as we know creates ridiculous inefficiencies. It’s been proven over and over again that soy for human consumption is NOT a driver of deforestation — meat production is. This argument is hilariously ironic
Conclusion: We can improve the meat industry
It’s funny how she starts and ends the video saying “yes, the meat industry is bad, but let’s make it better!” but then does not include even one single solitary idea for how to do that
I thought this was a helpful response. Maybe I’m overthinking things because this was just one short video and probably didn’t confuse anyone as much as it confused me, but I was worried that by adopting a vegan diet, I was actually damaging the environment. Thankfully, my mentor was also able to recommend a documentary called “Cowspiracy.” It wasn’t available for free and I didn’t have a Netflix subscription, but eventually I sucked it up and paid the $7.83 for a cheap subscription and it was very worth it! I can’t link to the video here because it’s on Netflix rather than YouTube, but this information is:
Andersen, K.& Kuhn, K. (producers and directors). (2014). Cowspiracy: The sustainability secret [Video file]. Netflix. Retrieved December 4, 2022 from https://www.netflix.com
I had had no idea that veganism could have such a profound impact on climate change. It was validating to see that I was right that free-range farming is actually worse environmentally than the more cruel types of farming. It reminded me of a conversation I had with my far-right brother one time. Apparently, Barack Obama had put up a tweet or some form of informal mass communication saying that if more people could try to cut back on animal products, it would benefit the environment. So my brother and all his friends decided to eat lots and lots of meat just to upset the environmentalists. This intertwines with my general concept of how the political parties in this country work: the left is trying to make a better world for everyone (including political opponents); whereas the right is literally concerned only with getting back at people they feel have somehow wronged them, and “pissing off the libs” because they think it’s funny. It’s always kind of confused me that my brother and his friends are willing to make personal sacrifices as long as they believe that those sacrifices will create more pain for their opponents than it will for them. For a party that claims to believe that vengeance is up to God alone, they certainly go out of their way to cause needless suffering.
This topic of revenge brings me to a point that I was planning to write about on here anyway. I recently stumbled across this YouTube video:
I was so mad after watching that video. Why should we have to make sacrifices for animals when they don’t seem to reciprocate?
Because no other animal has ever figured out how to cause even a tiny fraction of the suffering that we have been able to impose on other animals. Get back to me when animals figure out how to raise humans for meat and claim it’s “humane” if our short lives weren’t as terrible as they could have been. If we’re keeping score, humans are still definitely the most successful revenge-seekers of any species.
But back to my mentor. Since he was recommending documentaries anyway that had nothing to do with animal cruelty, he also recommended two more. These two are about the health benefits of a vegan diet. The first was also available on Netflix and the second is available in several places but I got it on Amazon Prime Video. Here they are:
Andersen, K.& Kuhn, K. (producers and directors). (2017). What the Health [Video file]. Netflix. Retrieved December 4, 2022 from https://www.netflix.com
Cameron, J., Schwarzenegger, A., Chan, J., Hamilton, L., Djokovic, N., & Paul, C. (Executive producers), & Wilks, J., & Pace, J., (Producers), & KoKornelsenrnelsen, S., & Papabeis, G., (Co-producers), & Psihoyos, L. (Director). (2019). ReFuel Productions; Oceanic Preservation Society; Diamond Docs; Ohh Dip!!! Productions. The Game Changers [Video file]. Amazon Prime Video. Retrieved December 4, 2022 from amazon.com/primevideo
I put the names of the documentaries in bold because the second one had a lot of producers and I didn’t bother to look up what you’re supposed to do there for a proper citation. It’s probably an “et al” situation but whatever.
Anyway, I hadn’t thought of putting in actual effort into learning about the health effects of veganism, because to me it was an altruistic thing. Helping animals, slowing climate change, and helping to support the nutritional needs of the most vulnerable members of a growing human population are all lofty goals. But whenever they showed cheese or steak or any of those wonderful things, my mouth started watering. I was annoyed that documentaries and YouTube videos that aim to get people not to eat animal products would tempt me with the very products they opposed. It wasn’t until I watched these last two documentaries about health that I could look at a pizza and feel disgusted rather than tempted. I guess I’m still more selfish than I would like to be, but if it works it works!
So the moral of the story is that sometimes it is worth spending a little bit of money to get good content. And to think it wasn’t even the vegan stuff that made me take that step; I had wanted to watch those for over a month. What finally got me to pay for Netflix was that I wanted to watch The Home Edit. A blog entry about that should pop up soon! Suffice it to say, I’m trying to make my room not just clean but also organized and comfortable.
If someday this tiny blog is ever discovered, everyone will start going vegan 😉 In the meantime, I have to post all of this here to get it out of my system so I don’t start getting preachy with my friends.
